<![CDATA[permies: "woodland care"]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/forums/f-25/woodland-care JForum - http://www.jforum.net Can someone please help me identify this tree?
It's my first time actually posting here although I've been reading the forums for about a year now.

I'm going to be starting up a new garden at my mother in law's place using permaculture techniques as best as I know how anyway, and there is a tree in the garden bed that looks like it's a couple years old. I was wondering if anyone could tell me what this is? My best guess is that it's a birch, but I could be wrong of course.

Any thoughts?

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/14639/130191 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/14639/130191 Willows to stop bank erosion I thought I would share this info with the folks here.
Not sure if this is the right section.


Where there's a willow, there's a way

The lowly willow bush grows like a weed and has been of little use to people except as willow switches to keep children on the virtuous path.

But conservation districts across Manitoba are having great results planting willow bushes for erosion control on our lakes and rivers.

Conservationists love the willow's aggressive root system. The roots act like rebar, holding soil in place so it doesn't fall into water systems.

"Willows are the perfect species for this environment. They're easy to harvest, easy to plant, and their rooting mass is so large," said Armand Belanger, manager of the East Interlake Conservation District, based out of Gimli.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/14612/129967 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/14612/129967 Stinktree control http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/14528/129327 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/14528/129327 Timber Rights http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/14377/128069 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/14377/128069 Battery chainsaw trial thread (save on fossil fuels), huge tree loss
This is going to be a LOT easier for me than using a gas chainsaw, and it has the powersharp chain sharpener built right in and I have 2 40 V battery packs to keep me going. I have used a smaller battery chainsaw, but it wasn't big enough to take down larger trees, this one should be much more efficient. As many of you are aware, we are having a HUGE tree loss here this year because of several factors. We have the Emerald Ash borer infecting hundreds of ash trees here. We had to have a HUGE ash taken down by a crane last week, here are some photos of that.

http://restfultrailsfoodforestgarden.blogspot.com/

they were supposed to cut all the wood up into 24 " firewood lengths..supposed to is the operative word here, a lot did NOT get done so it is left up to me. We also have had a lot of branches come down and trees get topped out by the snowstorm on Feb 29 and the two wind storms we had this last week, so there is a lot of down trees to cut up. There are also a few downed trees that fell over my trails in the woods that HAVE to be removed. We have a bunch of logs that need to be cut into firewood lengths also, but they MAY have to wait for the gas saw, but I'll give it a try with the Oregon. I also have a LOT of smaller trees that will have to come down before they fall down. The bark is already peeling off many of the trees, they are THAT dead. Two are close to the house so they are a danger if they are not taken down, but much smaller than the one in the photo.

I will have the battery operated saw on TRIAL for a couple of weeks so I'll be updating on this thread how it works for me, and on my blog. Those interested in finding out more about the saw can contact the dealer at Oregon: lukeweintz@powernowtoools.com at Blount International

I will be following up soon..very excited to use this saw ! Can't wait to update you..]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/14312/127536 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/14312/127536 Drought Killed Trees
We have 4 acres, mostly woods with a spring fed creek on 2 sides. The uphill area has several trees which seem to have died, others which are only leafing on a few lower branches. Red oaks, dogwoods especially hit hard, white oaks, pin oaks, hickory, sweet gum, etc. The magnificent beech trees by the creek are doing fine.

We have plenty of firewood, from when my husband extended an open area for fruit trees. I told him no more tree cutting (wants to thin the woods) until we have a use for the trees.

The question is what do we do with the dead trees. I'm giving them more time to see if anything grows, as some have tiny signs of life. Most of my trees survived, so this is more like natural thinning.

Can these trees be used for mushroom logs? or would they not do so well since the trees seemed to have died?

Other uses?

Do we need to clear the dead trees in case of another drought? or can we leave them to let nature do her stuff?

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/13985/124955 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/13985/124955 chainsaw troubleshooting
First a bit about saw choices. Two brands dominate the market for loggers,tree service companies and rental outfits. They are Stihl and Husquvarna also known as Husky in the U.S. These saws are dominant for good reason. Quality equipment with extensive dealer networks which have skilled technicians who are familiar with their equipment. There may be some other useful saw out there, but none come to mind.

Common starting issues. --- 1. Be sure that your saw contains plenty of properly mixed gas.

2. The saw should have a choke position. Give it up to 5 pulls, until it sparks. Some saws will flood on as little as 2 pulls, so don't do it 20 times.

3. Once the saw gives some hint that it wants to start, move it to the next throttle position. On most saws this will result in a fast idle one starting is achieved.

4. If the saw fails to start, it is probably flooded with fuel. Squeeze the throttle to full on and pull the cord several times. I have started many saws belonging to my customers simply by dealing with flooding.
If it still won't start, clean your spark plug and clean the air filter. Neglect of the air filter has to be the number 1 reason for running problems. A saw sucks air and gas according to how the carb is set up. A clogged air filter causes the saw to draw too much gas as compared to the amount of air. It's like leaving the choke partially on. Clean the air filter regularly !
Don't monkey with your carb. --- Unless you know exactly what you're doing, just leave it alone. The carb setting is seldom the problem.

If it still won't start, check the side of the machine to see if you are amongst the unwashed millions who have foolishly purchased a department store grade saw. The best solution is usually to correct that mistake.

5. Sometimes the problem lies with the spark arresting screen inside the muffler. This can clog with carbon deposits, especially on smaller saws with dirty air filters. The clogged filter causes the saw to run too rich in fuel and unburned fuel contributes to the deposits. Idling a saw constantly can contribute to carbon build up. Give it a good hard run regularly. A giant falling saw that is used for cutting twigs, will never be run full out. Use the appropriate machine for the job.

If all of this fails, take it to a qualified technician who will usually pronounce it dead or show how some little quirk caused the problem.

Photos - 1. This is the run position on my little Stihl 170. When a saw is flooded, put slider in this position and squeeze the throttle completely while pulling the starter cord. It may take a few pulls.

2. The spark arresting screen is behind this muffler face plate.

3. Always be sure to put gas and oil in the right resevoir. The only design flaw evident on my Stihl is that both the gas and oil caps are identical in size and color. It might have cost an extra dime to make one of them red.


This is the best small saw I have ever owned. For softwoods under 14 inches in diameter, there is no need to drag around a big, heavy saw. It cuts slower than my big Husqvarna does, but the light weight allows quicker movement. I deal mostly with smaller trees, brush clearing and milled lumber trimming. This nimble saw is more than adequate. A small saw that is run hard will give less trouble than a big saw that is idled too much.
Writing this with iPhone so have to submit constantly or get logged out. When you see 6 photos, I'm done.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/13731/122967 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/13731/122967 Earthworms Handicap Forests?? Earthworms ruin nutrients, moisture on forest floor, say researchers. The basic arguments are that earthworms cycle nutrients too fast, create bare soil, and drain off surface water. I am not an expert on forests, but I am finding this to be a tough cookie to eat. Maybe I am too much of a worm lover, but I thought that earthworms generally create more pluses than minuses. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is this an actual problem or is this the case of looking for a problem where one doesn't exist?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/13422/120646 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/13422/120646 my new recently logged homestead
i live in washington state (sw washington - chehelis for reference), I have recently purchased a 20 acre site that was logged about 3 years ago and again a year ago. the site has a stream in a stable gorge that divides the site in half (30ft gap). the property is boarded on one side by a river (the stream empties into the river). the site has been replanted with young firs which are between 12" - 36" tall currently. its a great site with 100 year old trees along the river and stream banks (60ft buffers along the banks that were left after logging).

i plan to build a small cabin on the site as my primary off grid residence in the next 6 weeks as i begin to work on the land and hopefully improve its natural features. it is my goal to develop this site into a food forest. i want to introduce other types of wood trees and fruit producing trees into the mix of firs i have already. i will also like to begin planning and placing perhaps half a dozen small cabins around the site to provide some income as rentals and a river side retreat while i put in garden beds for growing food for a csa. this is a long term project with many phases and stages, but i wanted to give you some idea of my vision to set up my question i have been struggling with but can't seem to find a clear answer that also enlightens my understanding.

my question at large is this:

given that my site is in the heart of miles of fir forests, do i risk poor health or poor growth of my introduced fruit trees because of the nearly homogeneous nature of the fir forest around me for miles? are there things to keep in mind or be mindful of when developing a blended food forest of this type. i have seen a few examples of isolated ecosystems, but have never been able to get enough background on how they were created (often the creators are long since passed on). my concern is that although i will be careful not to plant anything invasive or that will attract unwanted pests to the nearby forests (dept of natural resources will make sure of that as well), i do not have any practical experience developing such a concept on 20 acres. i have developed gardens on 3 acres, but it was in a suburb community with mixed species of trees everywhere.

are there any books on this specific type of experiment? perhaps i am over thinking it, bet since some of these trees will not mature for decades, i will like to think about it in that kind of time scale as it relates to the health of what i am planting. the site is south facing, gets great sun, yet has some interesting microclimates due to the trees around the entire sight and the stream and river banks. i have about 12 acres of open (recently planted areas covered in 4 ft woodland growth, there are edible mushrooms and other things from nettles, to berries to other old world native edibles. the river and stream have salmon runs but they are not heavy runs every year.

please offer some ideas and thoughts on the up and down sides of planting a food forest of adoptable fruit and wood trees in an area with mainly one type of forest. thanks for your ideas and suggestions.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/13300/119980 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/13300/119980 Petra, Maine forest garden project
I have been doing some reading on forest gardens, which is what led me to this forum. I have a few other books as well, but most helpful has been the two-volume set, Edible Forest Gardens by Dave Jacke. I am not planning on creating a forest garden on a large scale, since I already have a forest (woodlands, actually), and don't plan on doing a lot of clearing. However, I do plan to clear small areas, and make use of some of the clearings that I already have, planting perennial crops as I can, beginning this year, and adding others in subsequent years. Our land borders on several hundreds of acres of undeveloped woodlands and forest on the west and south, and a couple of hundred acres, at least, on the other side of the brook, which would be east of us. To the north, the nearest house is almost exactly two miles away, where the land is mostly agricultural. I put a wildlife camera in the woods last spring, buying another one during the summer, and they picked up at least four individual bears (one that was there throughout, with three others showing up during mating season), some moose, and white-tailed deer, all of which I would be pleased to share my land with.

For that reason, I don't want to do any aggressive cutting on the west side of the road, although I'll be doing some selective cuts, with the intention of doing some planting in various part of the woods. Over the past months, I have been adding plants to a database that I'd like to have, and which will grow in our hardiness zones, which borders on zones 3 and 4, paying particular attention to those that are native to Maine, and especially those that are similar to plants that are already growing on our land, such as blueberries, raspberries and strawberries. So, I'm looking at the species that I already have and comparing them to those that I'd like to have, and plugging in compatibilities. My intentions are to have sufficient edible perennials growing in the area to be able to supplement our diet while we're staying on the property in the spring, summer and fall, and to encourage the wildlife to remain in the area, limiting our activities on the west side of the road, where the bulk of our land is, to doing some targeted planting there, protecting them from wildlife damage as much as necessary, at least until they have are well established. Otherwise, I am perfectly happy to share with the bears and other critters.

Although I do intend to get some plantings in this spring, I still have a lot of assessment to do. We have had the property for less than two years and I was in cancer treatment for much of the last half of last summer, so I haven't even walked the entire property yet. I have a pretty good idea as to many of the trees, shrubs and herbs that I'd like to have, although I may learn that some of them are not appropriate for one reason or another, but I would be interested in any ideas that anyone here might have. I am looking primarily for low maintenance perennials, although I will be available on the property until the snow comes. Currants would probably do well on our property, for example, but they cannot be legally sold for planting in northern Maine. I am not a fanatic about native plants only, although it certainly makes sense that natives are more likely to grow well there, and to play well with others.

At some point, perhaps in a couple of years, after I have finished with the cabin, we have a well, and I've established some edible perennials in other parts of the woodlands, we might want to take our potato field back and begin a more complete forest garden on this cleared land, but probably not for a couple of years. That would be a good place for it, since it has a permanant brook not too far into the woods behind the potato field, and a couple of runoff streams on both sides of the field.

You can see some of our property on my Petra, Maine Wildlife Photos site at http://www.petramainewildlife.com, which features photos and video taken by my wildlife cameras during the spring, summer and fall of 2011, and which will be continued in the spring of 2012, with three, and possibly four cameras in the woods. I would appreciate any ideas, suggestions or criticisms you might have. I do not claim to be an expert on any of this stuff, although I grew up on a small farm in the UP of Michigan, which has a climate very much like that in Maine, so I'm not entirely clueless. Still, the forest garden concept is new and fascinating, and I haven't even finished my reading on the subject yet.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/13054/118066 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/13054/118066 anyone ever rip with a cross cut saw?
I was thinking of asking if anyone knew of a one man 'pit-style' rip saw (ie. with real rip teeth) but at this point, I've kind of figured out that they don't exist.

My specific problem is that I have a 5' log of deodar cedar that's about 12" in diameter and I'd like to get some boards out of it, by hand. No chain saws, etc etc. At least I'd like to try it first that way and fail ;)

I realize that there are several types of teeth patterns - has anyone had any success with one type of tooth pattern over another?

Honestly, I'm kinda stunned that I can't find (online) any solution to the problem of making boards out of a log with hand power. It doesn't seem too crazy a question. Am I looking in the wrong places? Hmm...

Thanks!

ps. Anyone have one I can try out around Eugene Oregon?
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12861/116426 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12861/116426 Thousand Cankers Disease (TCD)- Black Walnut TWIG BEETLE
We have lots of black walnut trees on our farm. We woke up to news Illinois does not have it yet... but is worried about getting it... and has implemented a plan.

I have blogged what I can find about it at http://hines.blogspot.com/2012/02/newest-threat-to-il-tree-population-is.html (Newest Threat to IL Tree Population is Thousand Cankers Disease)

Thanks for any sharing...





]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12839/116303 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12839/116303 Online tree company with greek name?
I am recovering my computer and one of the items that apparently wasn't backed up is my bookmarked websites. I stumbled across it in the permie forums and can't seem to find it. Does anyone have it bookmarked by any chance?

any help is appreciated.

Shawn]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12740/115356 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12740/115356 Value of crab apple? http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12597/113889 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12597/113889 Chinese chain saws and spare parts [size=18]we are a chain saws manufacture of China for almost 20 years. Our products cover chain saws, brush cutters, cutting saws and so on.

If you are interested in learning more, contact me directly.

judywin888@gmail.com MSN: judywin888@hotmail.com]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12536/113437 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12536/113437 chainsaw bar and chain oil with fungus spores in it
At one point there was a chainsaw bar and chain oil that came loaded with myceleum spores. The idea was that you could cut down the tree and the stump would then be pre-loaded with stuff to make the stump rot really fast.

But ....

The wood that you want to keep would also be loaded the same way.

Under awesome conditions, you could whisk the new log away, rinse it, cut it, dry it and maybe the spores do well in damp conditions, but do poorly on dry wood. And that's a lot of if's and maybes.

I think that, in general, this is probably not a great idea.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12432/112761 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12432/112761 Hugelkulture: specific trees
Olive
Fir
Live Oak
Pine

And if not... what can one do with them? I'd like to use them as firewood, but the pines would be bad for a fireplace, right? What about an outdoor firepit? ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12256/111401 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12256/111401 Are American OR Black (Canadian) plum trees self-pollinating? http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12042/109382 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12042/109382 Get breif knowledge for many health care products http://affordablemedz.com/]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12025/109276 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/12025/109276 cedar
Juniper oil is distilled from the wood, twigs and leaves. The cones are used to flavor gin and as a kidney medicine.

Native American tribes used juniper wood poles to mark out agreed tribal hunting territories. French traders named Baton Rouge, Louisiana (meaning "red stick") from the reddish color of these poles.

During the Dust Bowl drought of the 1930s, the Prairie States Forest Project encouraged farmers to plant shelterbelts (wind breaks) made of eastern juniper throughout the Great Plains. They grow well under adverse conditions. Both drought tolerant and cold tolerant, they grow well in rocky, sandy, and clay substrate. Competition between trees is minimal, so they can be planted in tightly spaced rows, and the trees still grow to full height, creating a solid windbreak in a short time."
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/11771/107385 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/11771/107385 grafting apples on crabapple http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/11617/106066 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/11617/106066 Need ideas: Removing a huge tree in a drainage channel
I have a huge tree, about 3 ft in diameter, that was growing next to a drainage channel (water 20 ft wide and 4 ft deep) and uprooted and fell in - just the root mass is a big 12ft diameter wall!
I'm trying to figure out some way to remove it with reasonable safety and as much ease as possible. I'm leaning toward getting a boat out and chainsawing it into pieces, but if there are better ideas out there I would love to hear them!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/11557/105561 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/11557/105561 Creating a wildlife snag from a live tree
I was reading this page about creating wildlife snags from live trees, and decided to give it a shot.  Yesterday I climbed the tree and girdled it about 1/3 down from the top.  I also removed about 2/3 of the branches.  The idea is to let the tree die slowly, hopefully rotting from the inside out (vs. outside in), which provides better conditions for wildlife (cavity-nesting birds, etc.).  Above the girdle the tree will die quickly, and the top will break off, leaving an open wound for fungus to rot the tree from the inside.

I am wondering if anyone else here has tried that?  Especially on a douglas fir?  What tools did you use?  I used an axe, but if I were to do very many trees I think a draw knife would be easier.  The handle of the axe really got in the way, tangling with the branches.  Also there is not enough room to swing the axe, so I basically held the blade in my hands and pushed it up/down to peel the bark in a band about 10" wide.  However the axe did work really well for removing branches.  In many cases all it took was one good chop.

I'll try to post pictures as the tree slowly dies.

I would love to hear from anyone else who has tried this.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/11236/102872 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/11236/102872 Charcoal pits
[img width=625 height=469]http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/296452_295588437120473_100000079578758_1293298_763088935_n.jpg[/img]

Apparently they were used for making charcoal and would be dug just outside the villages but within easy reach of an olive press and the olive waste would be used to cover the fires instead of the soil used in other places - soil is in pretty short supply around here!  The top of the pit is lined with stone, but the lower parts seem to have been carved out of solid rock, which I guess is about the safest way to have a fire around here.  Someone told me the name of the tree they used to use, but it wasn't anything I recognised and, being me, I've promptly forgotten the name, but the bit of land is named Sobreirao, after the cork oaks that grow nearby.  But I would have thought that cork oaks are too valuable to use for charcoal, so maybe the name has no relevance to the pits. 

If our offer is accepted, I intend to experiment with these pits.  Does anyone know if pine makes good charcoal?  ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/11019/100554 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/11019/100554 Syrup from broadleaf maples, is over tapping a problem
     Most maple syrup is made from sugar Maple and black Maple in Eastern Canada with Québec accounting for about 90% of world production. Just about all information I've been able to find deals with those trees and much of it is in French.

    Has anyone in British Columbia, Washington or Oregon had any issues with tree death from over tapping the broadleaf maple?

    I'm also interested to learn of the labor efficiency of tapping broadleaf maples. Specifically, how much per hour do you figure you made after considering all aspects from sap to retail. If these numbers are quite low I'll probably just tap enough for friends and family. I won't have any energy costs associated since I'll construct some sort of big vat which will be heated with a rocket stove, probably the one inside the house. I'll have to pipe the steam outside or through a condenser coil.

      I was thinking that on those trees which I plan to thin, I might as well tap them to death. Or I could tap everything heavily and make it a survival of the fittest contest.

    Once when I was in my 20s I located a huge tract of forest near North Bay Ontario which was mostly beautiful sugar Maple. It was for sale cheap and I had grandiose visions of becoming a Maple flooring Baron. I estimated that this forest contained millions of dollars worth of finished product. My fantasy was dashed when my dad showed me a map of Ontario and then he drew a pencil line across it. Most maple north of that line have black heart(dead centers which become hollow over time making the trees useless for any form of lumber, something to do with extreme winters) and are only good for producing maple syrup and a bit of firewood. The forest of my dreams was considerably  north of this line. I called a few mills and they confirmed that Maple in their area is just firewood.        " The best laid schemes.....  And leave us naught but grief and pain for promised joy."   Robert Burns.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10875/99132 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10875/99132 Black Lace Elderberry
I found a Black Lace Elderberry in an 8" pot at the farm store last week.  Looking at information on-line I see that this should be a spring planting.  Since we are just a few weeks away from the first solid frost here at the 40th parallel, I'm wondering about my best chance for holding the plant over the winter in my home. 

Currently the pot is sitting in a cake pan to provide water to the roots.  Do I want to place it near a sunny south facing window or tuck it in a corner of a room that gets filtered natural light?  Leave it in the pot or move it to a bigger container?  Put the current pot in a larger container, surrounding and covering the pot and base of the plant with leaves/mulch/compost?  Keep the roots moist or allow them to dry out? 

What about temperature control?  While I keep the house temperate (68-70) I do have an unheated basement which gets down to the high 40's during the worst of the winter and unheated, insulated garage that has allowed a case of soft drink left on the concrete floor to freeze.  Both of these locations have florescent lighting.  The sunniest room is heated with a gas log fireplace that could be turned off and on at the source to vary the room temperature from day to night.

In the spring we plan to create a C shaped hugelculture bed and place this plant in the well in the center.  The hugelculture bed will be just south of the wooded hillside in organically rich soil.  Any hints, tips, websites would be greatly appreciated.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10733/98019 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10733/98019 right time to cut/coppice trees
I've heard that the best time to cut down trees is when they have no sap. Makes sense, since there is less moisture to dry out when seasoning. It is reportedly also the best time to coppice/pollard trees.

When is that magical time, where there is no sap in the trees? Is it right after their leaves fall off or even before that?


Im asking since there is a very very narrow window (between when the leaves fall off and when there's over 1 meter/3 feet of snow) to cut all of my building material, firewood and poles. ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10701/97610 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10701/97610 Is It safe for furniture? http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10584/96531 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10584/96531 Questions about planting Allegheny chinquapin
This past spring, I located what ultimately turned out to be an Allegheny chinquapin.  I marked its position and checked on it frequently to monitor its progress hoping to gather some seed to plant on my family's farm.  On September 30th, I gathered 29 nuts and brought them home with the intent of cold stratifying them, per instructions I had read previously from some internet source.  Believing that I would return to the tree to gather additional seed as more of the burs opened, I placed those already collected in a zip-loc bag and set them on my kitchen table.  I noticed a bit of moisture had condensed on the sides of the bag but since I was under the impression that they had to be cold stratified prior to germination, I let them be. 

Today (October 6th), I returned to the tree, collected more seed, came home and presented them to my father to see if he could correctly identify them (he did).  I then picked up the plastic baggy containing the ones I had collected last week and to my eternal surprise, 8 of the 29 seeds I originally collected had germinated.

I quickly gathered some ~ 1/2 gallon pots (the only thing I had to hand), filled them with well hydrated Mel's Mix (the only thing I had to hand) left over from a previous square foot garden and placed each germinated nut therein, root down.  I then sprinkled a bit of dry Mel's mix over the surface and set the pots outside. 

I was under the impression that cold stratification was necessary to get the seeds to germinate.  Given that is obviously not the case, I'm now wondering if perhaps cold stratification is necessary merely to prevent germination until more favorable conditions arrive (spring).  And if that is the case, will I need to baby these babies through the winter or will they merely go dormant and bud out next year at the appropriate time and grow well?

And if fall germination is part of the normal life cycle of the Allegheny chinquapin this far south, and since direct seeding usually yields superior results, should I rush out and direct seed any others that germinate in the bag?

Lastly, do these nuts merely send down a tap root in the the fall/winter with the emergence foliage deferred until warm weather returns?

What would y'all do given a similar set of circumstances?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10579/96504 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10579/96504 Firewood – labor efficiency
My property is long and skinny and just over half a mile long. It belonged to a railway at one time and has a good quality gravel road which runs for most of its length. No area of the property is more than 150 feet from a road and 80% of the land is within 75 feet of the road. Some of this land is quite steep and that is the area where most of the natural forest which produces my firewood and building wood is located. 

  There is a huge amount of coppice maple in this zone with nice four and 5 inch branches and there are quite a few multi-trunked trees which have individual branches over 1 foot in diameter. I will use some of these as building posts and much of the smaller wood will be firewood. Although I like the idea of small dimensioned wood which does not need to be split I don't relish the idea of handling millions of small pieces of firewood and then having to heave them either up or down slope to the road so I've come up with this.

  I have an old crane truck with an 18 foot deck. I've determined that it's too expensive to keep this thing licensed and insured but it's fine for use around the farm. It's the type of crane you often see hoisting Hydro poles. I'm planning to make several big troughs from recycled heating oil tanks, the oval type that hold about 300 gallons. I've often seen these used at scrapyards to contain various grades of metal. They use these since they're a good size for moving around with a forklift. I've charged $100 per tank to dispose of these in the past so no problem on supply. These tanks will be placed up or down slope into areas where wood has been cut. Most chunks will be just shorter than the tank. In that way the total number of pieces handled will be greatly reduced. Once the truck is filled with loaded tanks it will be driven to the firewood storage greenhouse. This greenhouse will have removable panels on the side which faces the driveway. The crane will be able to drop big buckets of wood to within inches of where it will be stacked. The long pieces of wood will never need to be cut since they will be fed into a rocket stove slide which allows for burning of materials up to 6 feet long. See posting called rocket stove slide in the green building section.

      Sometimes I will have large dimension firewood which needs to be split. When this happens I'll cut this material to 16 inches and load it into separate containers. The truck has an awesome hydraulic pump so I'll run a splitter off this power while the truck idles. It runs on propane so there's no worry about diesel fumes. Material that is taken from one container will be split and immediately heaved into an empty one 3 feet away. No stacking required.

    My work often produces short chunks of 2 x 4 and other lumber. These materials are gathered into banana boxes or other reusable or burnable containers. These containers are stacked for later use and nothing is taken out of them until they're sitting in front of the stove.

    Is there anything I haven't thought of here? Can you think of any way to make the process more efficient?

  Please tell us what devices or processes you have used to make burning firewood  less laborious.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10558/96310 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10558/96310 Natural stump removal
   Nine years ago I stuck the tip of my chainsaw deep into a few of these stumps and peed in the holes regularly. I also covered a couple with dog shit. These stumps rotted faster than the others. I probably should have added lime. The fastest rotting of all was one that got the pee and poo treatment and was then covered with a compost pile consisting mostly of scotch broom which is a legume. This one is unrecognizable as a stump now.

  The large root structures of my stumps absorb plenty of water during the winter so it's unlikely that I'll need to water these flowerpots very often.

   Outside of grinding and excavating, does anyone have other techniques to expedite the decomposition of tree stumps?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10388/94839 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10388/94839 Black Locust Grafting
I was wondering if I could go the way of "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" and graft something fruit-ish onto the black locust as it invades. I did some searching on the internet, and I'm coming up blank.

They keep telling me I need to cut it back ASAP, or it will get entrenched. It'd be nice if I could get that invasiveness to work for me instead.

I'm open to any and all low-tech and low-investment ideas. If, in the end, the idea involves a shovel, I would also consider that. :wink:

Thanks.
william]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10311/94257 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10311/94257 Coffee grounds as mulch http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10260/93721 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10260/93721 Jackrabbits - tree destroyers
After losing lower branches, eaten all the way down to the wood, half inch and greater in width I've been perplexed. What animal on this earth would eat Cypress? Well I heard that some animals eat the plants that we have been hammered over the head with that no animal would want to eat, like trees with pitch (Pine, Fir, Spruce, Redwood, Sequoia, Cypress, Juniper).  But one of these animals did in fact eat more than the lower limbs on big trees, they also ringed all my junior trees I planted in spring. 10 out of 11 of them.  Probably by next Saturday they will all be dead, including the older trees because I saw where they began nibbling on them as well.  I am thinking it has to be jackrabbits from all the signs.  pocket gophers don't go beyond a few inches to a foot from one of their holes, and they don't climb. Kangaroo rats don't climb up to knee level. Ground squirrels don't climb vegetation, I've watched them hours on end.  Jackrabbits stretching vertically are the only rodents in the area that could reach as high as was reached.

I'm heartbroken over this.  I feel a giant setback on my project.  I don't know if I have the will to continue.  I was banking on these trees not needing irrigation next year. I've been such a good caretaker, diligently arriving each weekend and spending up to an entire day caring for the trees and now 1/3 of all my trees are gone, the other 2/3 are likely dead now as I write.  I am just an average Joe, I don't have a big budget. Half of my budget is taken up by fuel to reach my property.  I can't afford to make this mistake again.

So I'm asking for help.  I didn't think I would have to coddle Pine and Cypress trees, but if that's what I have to do then I guess that's what I have to do.  I see already, my budget is blown next year, simply due to the extra wiring I'll need to cage any tree I plant.  Man that is so ugly, cages around trees. I have the biggest knee jerk reaction to the idea, it just makes me feel like I'm doing something I should not have to be doing if I was doing something right.  Wire caging is permaculture?  It just doesn't fit to me.

If it were as simple as good perimeter fencing... but I can't take that route.  One reason is these creatures are burrowing creatures so if they really want in to eat the nutritious and delicious Cypress delicacies, they will dig under the fence. But there's a legal reason. The County (San Luis Obispo) has declared the whole general region of the east county as Kit Fox mitigation area.  What this means to property owners is you cannot have fencing on your property the prohibits the Kit Fox from walking right in, and going where they want to. You have to have periodic places in the fence where it's completely open to critters up to I think 18 inches off the ground.  The County here are environmental nazi's.  They will throw someone in jail for not tearing down their fence that keeps the Kit Fox out of their chicken coop. Everyone who has battled against the County has lost big time $$$ or gone to jail, and there are some big national stories right here on that topic. But if you're a big corporation with lots of $$$ to buy off the County, you can come wipe out huge sections of Kit Fox habitat area and call it a Solar Power Plant.  But I'm like almost dirt poor here, but I'm trying or have been trying with all my might.  So, at this point I'm thinking to myself, I'm plain stupid for wasting my energy in attempting to improve this junk property.  In fact, perhaps it might be wise to sell this land, and scrape together everything I have and sell what I'm not using and save for another few years and then maybe I can afford a down payment on a piece of property closer in that I can visit more often.  And then I can be in debt for half of my remaining years, slaving at the office so I can afford to spend a few hours in nature on my time off.  Oh dear god, my whole future life is upside down. I don't know how I'll ever arrive at a place of independence (from jobs). I just don't know how to set things right. What should I do?  I can't kill every jackrabbit, but boy you can sure believe I had those fantasies the last two days.]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10148/92736 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/10148/92736 Identifying Acacia tree
First photo is the seed pod, the other is of the tree leaves, not sure if you can make them out.  Anyone know what kind of Acacia this is?

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9930/90769 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9930/90769 Jeffrey Pine seeds
I want to see how well Jeffrey pine (a close relative to Ponderosa pine) will grow in the ever warming climate here in Montana.

I would prefer seeds from the high (cold) and dry range of Jeffrey pine, and would trade you seeds of grasses, shrubs, or trees from around here, as per your preference.

Thanks!

-Chris]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9806/89663 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9806/89663 Camphor Tree I have been planting loquats, peaches, pears, nectarines, apples, plums, figs, cherries and any other seed I can get my hands on. I plan to plant a lot of pecans this fall when they get ripe.
Question, I have a few camphor tree seedlings. Are there any benefits to adding these to my future homestead ? Some information points out the medical/herbal uses, others point out that they can be invasive.

BSHillbilly]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9719/88908 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9719/88908 Marula tree ? http://blogs.worldwatch.org/nourishingtheplanet/marula-food-function-and-sustainable-development/

ETA: Looks like you can get it from Amazon - whodathunkit?
http://www.amazon.com/Seeds-SCLEROCARYA-BIRREA-Marula/dp/B004J3A91Y

How about details about its best performing habitat, etc.?
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9718/88907 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9718/88907 How much land for firewood? http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9698/88738 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9698/88738 cheatgrass Not sure if i am in the right category.  If not feel free to move.

We have some ground the is covered with cheatgrass, Our Goats will not eat it, it dries out and be comes a big fire hazard (I have been told it has more BTU's then gasoline) is there any way to get rid of it?  I would like to plant some barley in its place have had little to no success competing with the stuff.
]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9665/88450 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9665/88450 Identify tree found in woodland of VT
It has grown fast and is better than 10 feet tall and still growing.  It has big opposite leaves growing out of the stock (which seems to be bamboo like) and yet the purple/blue blossoms on the top are very compact and dainty. 

Any Idea what it may be?

Thanks,
Stacie

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9629/88180 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9629/88180 Japanese Bitter Orange Poncirus trifoliata) in an article on growing citrus from an old edition of Grow Your Own magazine. Has anyone had any experience growing this tree? If so, what kind of results did you get? And what was/is the fruit like?

I'm interested as I'd like to grow citrus (or citrus-like fruit) here in Wales and understand that Japanese Bitter Orange is cold hardy to -20 degrees Centigrade (-4 degrees Fahrenheit).

Thanks!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9600/88043 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9600/88043 Guild: Wheat + Alder? Alnus Glutinosa. I was thinking, if I plant a small forrest of Alder trees, and use this land for cereal production, especially wheat, I might have solution for a lot of my problems, but do I get some new problem that I did not think about?

Wheat should make most of it's growth in the spring, when Alder is still without leaves. When Alder comes to leaves, I can harvest wheat, and what is the best, I work in the shadow that Alder brings. I leave straw mulch where it is to protect Alder from drying and from weeds, if it matters. In the autumn, Alder drops a tons of excellent manure. But meanwhile, bacteria in Alder roots is fixing nitrogen becouse Alder is nitrogen fixing plant. Before winter I sow new wheat, maybe only under the heavy mulch of straw and leaves.

Does this looks to you sustainable for a number of years? Am I missing something?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9258/84635 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9258/84635 How to Seal Holes in a Tree? They are near the base i'm imagining this could eventually compromise the structural strenght of the tree and could be dangerous??
Could this be sealed with Clay??
Anyone with any exp. or ideas would be greatly appreciated  :-)
Thanks
Taylor]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9164/83652 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9164/83652 Chitalpa trees http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9085/82774 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/9085/82774 sumac kent]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8963/81361 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8963/81361 Anyone ever use a Dr Stump Grinder? http://www.drpower.com/twoStepInquiry.aspx?Name=stumpgrinder_advertising_a&Redirect=true ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8885/80725 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8885/80725 plum tree root runner questions? http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8860/80508 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8860/80508 Burning softwoods?
I've always heard that softwood - especially wood from evergreen trees such as pine - is not good to use as firewood, because it gunks up the chimney. 

Recently, though, in an online article about firewood, I read the opinion that softwood is fine to burn, as long as it's seasoned long enough - like, I guess, several years.  This writer said the idea that it's not okay is an old wive's tale. 

Has anyone here tried, or know of someone who has tried, to burn softwood after seasoning it for a good long time?  This would be great if true, since competition for free firewood around here has gotten tougher with more people installing wood stoves to save money.

Thanks in advance for any wisdom and insights on this! - Carol]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8810/80069 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8810/80069 &quot;Leverage Axe&quot; http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8718/79215 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8718/79215 Inexpensive Trees I stumbled upon this site:
http://www.arborday.org/Shopping/Trees/Treelist.cfm
and was shocked at their low prices.  Their prices range from $2 to $11, with most being in the $5-7 range.

(Honey Locust $5, Hickory $6, etc &)
Check them out if you are thinking of getting some new trees.  Good luck!

EDITed to add:  If you "join' ($10/year) you can get 30-56% off! Plus they give you 10 trees (probably their choice, depending on your zone).
Enjoy.

]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8705/79120 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8705/79120 Cypress goes well with ?
Also the soil has a lot of alkalinity.

I've talked some with some neighbors and most of them gave up growing anything. Particularly trees. So since I had my own initial upset with my pomegranates and figs I decided I do need wind break and shade and privacy, so I'm going to plant something evergreen.  I weighed and balanced everything.. and what I came up with for my first trees was Arizona Cypress.  It takes the most heat of any evergreen and also the most drought tolerant.  I don't want big Junipers because they suck all the water out of the ground with their thirsty appetite.  Arizona Cypress only sip a little bit.  Also they add acidity to the soil so in my case this will be a benefit I believe. This is how it's all shaping in my mind.  But I don't want to get started promoting monoculture, so I want to find some symbiotic trees with the Cypress.

In a guess I planted a Pine tree from Afghanistan next to several of the Cypress because I have noticed that Pines will grow up close to Cypress in the wild.  But I'm not sure if that was the best idea or not.

So, what should I plant interspersed with more Cypress trees?  I'd like to plant some more trees this weekend.  I can get about 10 more of those Cypress trees from local sources.  I'd like to find 10 more trees that are something other than Cypress.  And I appreciate any input from y'all!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8555/77844 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8555/77844 Contorted filbert, bronzing leaves?
I got a contorted filbert this spring to add to our garden, and it's currently in a large pot until we find a place for it. I went out to check on it and I noticed that some of the leaves are starting to bronze. I thought maybe it was getting too much sun, but my research has found that they prefer full sun. I couldn't find anything on this with an initial search, and am curious if anyone else knows about this?

Thoughts?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8524/77587 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8524/77587 Food Forest Support Species
We have just planted a series of swales using the technique described by Geoff Lawton in his Permaculture Food Forest DVD. 

In preparing for the massive planting that he advocates, I was struck by the lack of information on the support species for our area, which is in New Zealand.

Many, if not all of the fast growing nitrogen fixing species he described are not present or are not available in NZ, and it occurred that this would probably be the case in other countries.

We have done research and have thrown together a simple guild of Lupins (initial cover), Crotolaria, Russel Lupin, Tree lucern, Sweet Pea shrub (grandifolia), and kaka beak.

I will follow this up with all the species names - I know how frustrating it is getting obscure common names - and reports on effectiveness.

But;  What I hope to start off, is a discussion on what plants people have used in different situations, and comments on effectiveness and problems. 

I am a weeds ranger working for the Department of Conservation in NZ and have a keen awareness on invasive plants - which happen to be really suited to the types of jobs Geoff describes.  But in many cases there must be native alternatives, and less weedy species that do the same jobs, and that is what I'd love to draw out on this thread.

PS - not sure the name for the thread is right - any suggestions?]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8520/77576 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8520/77576 maple trees kent]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8511/77488 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8511/77488 Permaculture on already forested land
I'm interested in an establishing a permaculture, perennially/tree based farm on 1-2 acres of an 18 acre lot in South Eastern South Carolina.

The land is pretty heavily wooded and I want to focus on maintaining the current system as much as possible while implementing a greater number of productive trees.

[img width=640 height=480]http://i54.tinypic.com/o5xoy8.jpg[/img]

Primary plants seen so far, are oaks, sweet gums, hickory, and Silk Trees (leguminous tree).

Lower plants appear to be poison ivy, virginia creeper, some reeds, Yaupon Holly, Wax Myrtles, and something related to blueberries (I can tell from the habits and leaf structure)

I do however plan on collecting a complete profile of the plant life on the plot very soon.

So my main question is, how would you all recommend introducing productive plants with the most minute change to the current system?

Also:

Shade-loving nitro fixing cover crops and producers?

Would chickens, bees, and/or goats be a viable option in this wooded climate?

Any advice, thoughts, and questions are much appreciated!

-Dan]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8374/76225 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8374/76225 And what do people think of &quot;Build Your Own Log Furniture&quot;? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN/0970704607/rs12-20 ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8323/75890 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8323/75890 What do folks think of &quot;Timber Framing for the Rest of Us&quot;? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0865715084/rs12-20 ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8321/75887 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8321/75887 Has anyone read, &quot;Green Woodwork&quot; by Mike Abbott? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN/0946819181/rs12-20 ]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8317/75880 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8317/75880 trees near sewer pipe; trouble?
The sewer pipe is PVC or similar and was installed in the past 3 or 4 years. FWIW I do have three cleanouts for easy access to them - but am I asking for trouble planting trees in the same area? I know there are many cautions about trees and leachfields with the roots clogging them up - does the same hold true for sewer lines? FWIW I was planning on putting mostly dwarf or semi dwarf varieties.

Thoughts, opinions, and hearsay are all welcome!]]> http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8091/73792 http://www.permies.com/forums/posts/preList/8091/73792