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what is permaculture?

Robert Ray
volunteer

Joined: Jul 06, 2009
Posts: 1311
Location: Cascades of Oregon
    
  12
Creating the perfect footprint that uses the path but doesn't damage the path.

Imagine if you will a path with my permaculture plot represented by a small patch of thyme and your as another and eventually the entire path covered with all of our permie gardens creating the green the path. Resiliant enough for those that walk the path.


"There is enough in the world for everyones needs, but not enough for everyones greed"
(Buckman)
rose macaskie


Joined: May 09, 2009
Posts: 2134
    It is a nice thought that we could make a good path. Still it is part of the nature of ideas that they take unexpected turns and go wrong, change or weren't perfect anyway and another generation has to think what to do. I suppose that has nothign to do with us righting present wrongs in farming as faras we can.
        I say so because reality is good, as are dreams too.
          I learnt hisory of art and art movements start off cool, one example is the early renaissance painters, giotto and  michelangelo, they painted very expressive pictures so expressivity was part of the new movement in which humanes look like flesh and blood people instead of diagrams as they had before but in the end the pictures painted as a result of the renaissance started to look very over sophisticated and not very expressive, the painters started to pay more attention to painting every hair and wrinkle than to the meaning of the scene this is an exxample of how ideas twist with time. To take another art movement, the impresionist paintings in the end started to get too sentimental and people started to paint other paintings that had meaning again, the fashion changed.

      I hope that our efforts everyones efforts can change farming. 
      With global warming keeping the ground covered with plants that absorb carbon has become so much  more urgent and stopping the sun heating the earth too much by covering it with plants which are insulation rather than a substance that turns the light energy of the sun to heat energy as earth does, would help redue the effects of global warming too. agri rose macaskie.

 
rose macaskie


Joined: May 09, 2009
Posts: 2134
h ludi taylor, it flumoxes me, i have know peoploe get some system into their heads and then they get very overbearing. I like the whole premaculture likfe style idea but the idea of a system scares me. I have known what it is to be pushed around so often that i have got prety feirce and very weary of group allegencies. People want to clock you when you dont think exactly like they do though they are your friends, it is strange but i find it is true and even if you think you have the same ideas they differ from you in some point and go for you it is best to establish that you cant think the same as them in every point.

      Though a healthy soils should make plants healthier and so reduce the need for pesticides and though  fungicides and humic acids help the plants pick up nutrients and a healthy balance of lots of life in the soil helps plants resist disease, I don’t think it is possible to convince most farmers of the necessity of organic matter in the soil for these reasons, even though healthy plants mean healthy people.
      I think the idea that organic matter helps retain a lot more water in the soil so plants don't suffer from a week or two weeks shortage of rain much and don't need watering, and that it breaks up clay soils so they are more airy and healthier for plants, might be a better way of convincing farmers who are not interested in more natural ways of doing things that they should put organic matter back in the soil than explaining complicated things to them about plant and soil health.
If you tell farmer who use a lot of chemicals about the superior absorption of nutrients in soils with organic matter they can say, "look we grow a lot in bad soils so we don’t believe that plants need a lot of organic matter and  microorganisms" but they might be attracted to the idea that their soils will hold more water if they are full of organic matter so allowing the farmers to reduce their need to keep their eyes on the sky the whole time.
       If they used organic matter which apparently farmers usually have a lot of, to better their soils, they would not need so much chemical expensive nitrogen for instance, so that would annoy chemical companies, who would try to persuade them they did not need organic matter. what the chemical companies feel about things is likely to influence how easy it is to presuade farmers to have healty soils. Without organic matter in their soils they are likely to ruin their land for their sons. 
beign worried about how to spread the health of soils without persuadign people to be totally permaculture is permaculture in as far as worrying about the health of soils is very premaculture though it does not include a lot of other parts of permaculture. agri rose macaskie.
duane hennon
volunteer

Joined: Sep 23, 2010
Posts: 347
    
    2
the article is about self-sufficiency vrs sustainability
http://www.activistpost.com/2011/04/why-self-sufficiency-should-replace.html


Sunday, April 17, 2011
Why 'Self-Sufficiency' Should Replace 'Sustainability' in the Environmental Movement


in the comments

Anonymous said...
This is the reason I have nothing to do with "Permaculture" anymore. Too many of the main permaculture groups are more interested in UN/NWO "social justice" behind the scenes. Do not trust ANY group that does not encourage or support self-sufficient independence. Thank you for the post and hope more like it will come.

and from another

Anonymous said...
Agree with above comment on "permaculture". In fact I posted on the australian PRI site a couple of weeks agon. They had ANOTHER global warming write up. If they have not deleted it you will see it is very much like this article. Avoid "permaculture" groups or buying their products at all costs, they are a "face" for UN/NWO


I can sympathize with the poster above, I have an exchange with several people there over global warming a few months ago


so permaculture's beauty is in the eyes of the beholder
Robert Ray
volunteer

Joined: Jul 06, 2009
Posts: 1311
Location: Cascades of Oregon
    
  12
I personally see permaculture as self sufficiency with a sustainable requirement.
  I can be self sufficient and burn up or waste resources.
  My definition would include both words.
  I think social and environmental justice should be part of the movement. However once you start talking social issues it can be a sticky wicket. I would hope the social justice would fall into palce on it's own. I prefer to talk nuts and bolts of the garden, food production here, and is one of the reasons I like this forum no real political infighting
  Global warming? Was 28 degrees here last night.
len gardener


Joined: Dec 30, 2009
Posts: 122
Location: sub-tropics downunder
10,000 years  ago humans grew food?? maybe 5k or 6k ago they grew mostly wheat, and harvested whatever else grew in the wilderness in season.

anyway permaculture is a lot of things to a lot of people, it is not however a religion or a worship belief sysem, it is not also then about man created design, it is however about doing things simply and the simplest way is to mimic as best we can the natural system. it brings together other might i say phylosophies under the one umbrella.

it is all about keep it simple s.....

len


--

len

With peace and brightest of blessings,

"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

<img src="http://www.lensgarden.com.au/peregrine_falcon.jpg">
Robert Ray
volunteer

Joined: Jul 06, 2009
Posts: 1311
Location: Cascades of Oregon
    
  12
Creating that mimicry of nature does take a little fiddling by man.
Nature has it figured out we just need to bring it together with a friendly tweak or matchmaking if you will.
Brice Moss


Joined: Jul 28, 2010
Posts: 700
Location: rainier OR
    
    1
just found this great interview with Mollinson where he grapples with trying to define what he created

http://www.context.org/ICLIB/IC28/Mollison.htm

enjoy!
caringparent McCoy


Joined: Aug 11, 2011
Posts: 3
Thanks for sharing that article, it was a good read for me at lunch. Really made me think about what my kids and their kids are going top have to endure because of our selfish choices.
Tyler Ludens
pollinator

Joined: Jun 25, 2010
Posts: 5318
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
    
  20
I hope with our less selfish efforts we might make things a little less horrible for them. 


Idle dreamer

Bill Kearns


Joined: Feb 13, 2009
Posts: 150
Location: E Washington steppe
    
    2
This thread is an oldie but goodie! 

I spent yesterday in a booth at the Spokane Public Market doing "outreach" for the upcoming Inland Northwest Permaculture Conference.  There were LOTS of folks who had never heard the word "Permaculture" before and wanted a one or two line summary of what it is about.  Good thing I read this thread before I went!!

But there was always a second question that followed the first ... "so, what's in it for me?" or "why should I care?" 

Here I stumbled, for the "why" of Permaculture is so intuitively obvious that I've never come up with a succinct "reason" for it.  What I'm looking for in this post are your thoughts about how to answer the second question when talking to someone not familiar with Permaculture.

tia
Bill Kearns


Permaculture is a gestalt ... a study of the whole. Not just how to produce more and better food, but how human life on the planet affects and is affected by the surrounding environment.
Bill Kearns
Tyler Ludens
pollinator

Joined: Jun 25, 2010
Posts: 5318
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
    
  20
Why permaculture from a self-centered point of view?  To save money, have healthy homegrown food, more wildlife and beauty around the home.  But I don't know if those reasons will appeal to everyone.

Paul Cereghino
volunteer

Joined: Jan 11, 2010
Posts: 838
Location: South Puget Sound, Salish Sea, Cascadia, North America
    
  12
What is the foundation of a thriving and self-reliant community?
What is the alternative to improving the function of land?
Is there some other plan you had in mind?
Either we do permaculture the easy way, or we do it the hard way.

Paul Cereghino- Stewardship Institute
Maritime Temperate Coniferous Rainforest - Mild Wet Winter, Dry Summer
Tyler Ludens
pollinator

Joined: Jun 25, 2010
Posts: 5318
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
    
  20
In my experience, answering a question with a question is just about the fastest way to alienate someone.
Paul Cereghino
volunteer

Joined: Jan 11, 2010
Posts: 838
Location: South Puget Sound, Salish Sea, Cascadia, North America
    
  12
My point being, the question 'whats in it for me' is hard to answer meaningfully without undestanding your partner in conversation.  I'd suggest honestly and curiouslly learning more about the person you are talking with, and their values, and where they think we are going, using more socially gentle language than presented above.
Bill Kearns


Joined: Feb 13, 2009
Posts: 150
Location: E Washington steppe
    
    2
Thank you H Ludi Taylor and Paul Cereghino, for your insightful responses.

Paul, your last response is particularly relevant;  when I read it I said, "aha, apply Permaculture principles!" by using techniques of social observation to determine appropriate responses!  Each response will be tailored to the particular situation of the questioner.  There are no sound bites ... one-liners won't do it for the situation-specific, self-oriented question of "what's in it for me". 

Good stuff.

I also found this piece by Michael Pilarski that is relevant to the original thread topic:  http://www.inlandnorthwestpermaculture.com/?q=content/well-rounded-permaculturist

Tyler Ludens
pollinator

Joined: Jun 25, 2010
Posts: 5318
Location: Central Texas USA Latitude 30 Zone 8
    
  20
Paul Cereghino wrote:
My point being, the question 'whats in it for me' is hard to answer meaningfully without undestanding your partner in conversation.  I'd suggest honestly and curiouslly learning more about the person you are talking with, and their values, and where they think we are going, using more socially gentle language than presented above.


Being hard of understanding (especially in this written format), I was not able to glean that from your previous response.....   To me, your response was opaque and confusing, almost the exact opposite of your intention.

Hugh Hawk


Joined: Aug 21, 2011
Posts: 225
Location: Adelaide, South Australia (Mediterranean climate)
I like Mollison's definition from the article linked by Brice.  "The rational man's approach to not shitting in his bed."


Please set your climate and location to display
PMinx Hatfield


Joined: Oct 24, 2011
Posts: 3
Permaculture is a creative way of living that involves careful planning, better use of our resources and maintains a respect for life. It is using common sense in preserve life in all domains.  Right now it is being applied to food production, which happens to be the biggest activity on the planet.  In producing food permaculture uses a form of no no dig, no-till gardening or farming.  It is a techniaque that the forest uses to replinish the land.  Thte forest floor is a perfect example in using rotting organic material.  Permaculturists design their gardens according to zones, sectors and edges. 

ecoinallways.com
branimir marold


Joined: Dec 07, 2011
Posts: 25
Jd J wrote:"Permaculture is about reversing this process"

Surely with the number of people on this planet, meaning the need for more food, there is no way we can reverse the process?


So what's the alternative? Why make kids when you know they have no chance? And any reasonable human can see that so far we destroyed ourself (as a part of nature), imo we passed point blank but .. that's just my opinion

sorry nothing dis respect, just got here(haven't read whole thread..) .. best wishes ..


nothing personal - only natural
David Walking Turtle


Joined: Jun 04, 2012
Posts: 3
I think this film (aside from the religious overtones) makes for some very good permaculture lessons to learn.

http://backtoedenfilm.com/
The theories and results are sound, and its so amazingly simple. I have been following the lessons in my own garden ( and a container veg garden at that) to much success. Due to my physical limitations I cannot incorporate this into an actual "in-ground" approach... but if it can work in 48 5-gal containers... Im sure it could work normally as evidenced in the video.
Nick Garbarino


Joined: Apr 24, 2012
Posts: 239
Location: west central Florida
Permaculture gardening is growing a synergistic food producing perennial polyculture with mid-succession species and soil covered with late succession mulch.


Certifiable food forest gardener, free gardening advice offered and accepted. Permaculture is the intersection of environmentalsim and agriculture.
Theodore Heistman


Joined: Jun 09, 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Adirondacks
Permaculture is anything you don't feel like weeding.

"hey what's all that hemp nettle and garlic mustard over there?"

"oh, that's my PERMACULTURE garden!!"


My blog: http://adirondackhomesteadjournal.blogspot.com/
Theodore Heistman


Joined: Jun 09, 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Adirondacks
David Walking Turtle wrote:I think this film (aside from the religious overtones) makes for some very good permaculture lessons to learn.

http://backtoedenfilm.com/
The theories and results are sound, and its so amazingly simple. I have been following the lessons in my own garden ( and a container veg garden at that) to much success. Due to my physical limitations I cannot incorporate this into an actual "in-ground" approach... but if it can work in 48 5-gal containers... Im sure it could work normally as evidenced in the video.



That video is awesome btw!
jordan darko


Joined: Jun 27, 2012
Posts: 1
I am actually a huge fan of permaculture i love how well it treats the environment. However, one new piece of technology I have actually been using lately that reduces a ton of water when planting is using a gardening cube.
Burra Maluca
Mother Tree

Joined: Apr 03, 2010
Posts: 3935
Location: Portugal Zone 9 Mediterranean Climate
    
130
jordan darko wrote:I am actually a huge fan of permaculture i love how well it treats the environment. However, one new piece of technology I have actually been using lately that reduces a ton of water when planting is using a harvest cube. These work really well when you want to grow tomatoes or anything similar at all. harvestcube


Do you have any photos of these? What are they, and how do they work?

I noticed that the site said they weren't available yet. Have you been involved in the testing of them?


What is a Mother Tree ?
 
 
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